Making the Guns

Our very own "Chris M" Tackles A Craftsmens Card Model Of HMS Victory:

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chrism
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Making the Guns

Post by chrism » Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:24 am

Work on the gun carriages for the lower deck has begun.

The photos show all the parts cut and fabricated to make 35 lower deck carriages. I know I only need 32 but I felt it prudent to make a few spare pieces – one never knows what problems may ensue with assembly and painting. Plus it will be useful to have a spare or 3 for when I get onto making the barrels so that I can try them out on something – as by them the carriages will have been glued in.

As the second photo shows I did cut and assemble one carriage before commencing on the production line process. I then cut a length of paper and rolled it into a tube just to see effect of a barrel type appendage on top.

Once I have assembled all carriages they will be painted and on lower 2 decks have to be inserted before hull plating/planking begins.


The kit includes parts to make 28 of this style of carriage for the lower and middle decks, yet there are 32 lower deck barrel and 28 middle deck barrel parts! It was a simple enough exercise to make some additional carriage parts for the lower deck.

Middle deck carriages and guns are similar to lower deck - just 1mm smaller overall for the carriage and a whisker shorter on the gun barrel.

Then there are 44 carriages with wheels which are the more conventional carriage style for the upper and quarterdeck guns. This on my calculations leaves me 2 spare then for the quarterdeck.. There is only one size of barrel for all of these but I think it will be quite easy to adapt the length of the part! Pieces for two carronades then complete the armanents of this kit.


Image

All these parts have been laminated onto cereal box card and cut out ready for assembly.

Image

the first one - the prototype which I felt was a prudent move given the number of parts needing to be cut out.
Last edited by chrism on Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

chrism
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Re: Making the Guns

Post by chrism » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:44 am

The gun carriage trucks for the lower deck are now all assembled and work has started on making similar but smaller ones for the middle deck.

I then have the ones for the upper and quarterdeck to begin - and they all have more parts and wheels....

Image

Hence I have a question on gun carriage wheels -

What colour should gun carriage wheels be painted?.

Is there a definitive answer to this, because I have photos of my own and numerous other pictures showing wheels that are black, yellow, natural wood, even very dark wood colour? I am only needing sufficient information so as to know what to do with all of the “show cannon”

(My lower two decks are dummy trucks without wheels, and all my upper and quarterdeck carriages are same and have wheels)



I am then faced with another dilemma - do I show 15 or 16 guns on the lower deck? Will I be committing a major sin if I show 16 guns on lower deck, or should I really only have 15?
(If I do only have 15 – am I correct in thinking that it will be the front most port that is shown closed?)

What has anyone else done?

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Re: Making the Guns

Post by Maurice Wilcox » Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:52 pm

Blimey Chris those gun carraiges look more tortuous than the Heller versions, but at least they are coloured.

Personally I went with the arrangement as on Victory today, ie natural oak a pale grey colour, partly because I felt it looked good.

Image

As far as the guns on Victory, records seem to suggest 30 guns on the lower gun deck not 32, and that foremost port is usually shown as closed or without a gun, perhaps because it was quite crowded in that area what with the Manger and the room required to work the anchor cables.

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Re: Making the Guns

Post by chrism » Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:44 pm

the trucks for the lower two decks have not been too arduous - and they will still need a lick of paint to cover over the edges. I am hoping I can get away without a full paint job on them as not much of them is visible so I may just resort to the edges and the fronts. (depends on how different the colour they are printed comes up against caldercraft yellow!)

The others however are proving an interesting challenge -as the parts are so damn small. I need 44 of them in total and 18 that are as good as I can get. Those 18 on show will get a full paint job regardless.

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Re: Making the Guns

Post by chrism » Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:29 am

With work on the decks being temporarily halted owing to floored (sorry flawed – couldnt resist that) timber; and there being a delay whilst new supplies are shipped down river workers have been redirected into the carriage works where production on a prototype of the “Rolls Royce” of carriages for the vessel has taken place.

Image

Image

This is a prototype; future carriages will end up with overall slightly thicker parts as I feel a little more substance is needed to satisfactorily get the mini etched eyelets to hold into down the sides; and more especially in the rear axle where I believe I need to be thinking in terms of a 0.5 Amati copper eyelet.


I am ashamed to admit that this represents a total of 3 hours messing about – that includes cutting out and fixing together, plus some referring to the reference books.

It was made without a jig – which certainly slowed matters up considerably. I needed to get the measure of the beast and fully appreciate what bits fit where and need supporting etc (which I now have), and will be making a couple of jigs for helping with assembly of the production run.

There is no bar for the other end of the bed to lie against, so a jig – like on the plastic ones many of you have also assembled is needed to support this part.

Wheels for the production models will not be added until the rest of the carriage is assembled and painted. The wheels do not fit onto the axles at all. They just glue onto the sides of the carriage.

For the 18 which will be on show, I plan to drill into the wheel centre and add something – probably a short length of cocktail stick or wire to represent the end of the axle.


If anyone has any sensible comments or suggestions for improvements for the production models – I would appreciate them. Nothing other than this one has been cut out or assembled yet.


Given that I need 44 of these – I could be occupied for some time making them.

As these consist of so many little fiddly parts all of which seem to have "escape" on their minds, they will be cut and assembled individually.

Lastly - here is a quick shot of all 3 different types of carriage for this model.

Image
Last edited by chrism on Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Making the Guns

Post by Maurice Wilcox » Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:53 am

There's a job to test your resolve Chris, but don't get negative on the basis of 'Lightning' Pete's performance in knocking things up. I've just spent an entire morning devising a method to make Studding boom irons, and I'm not at all ashamed x7x

Those twelve pounder gun carriages look to be a good representation, and to my eye the thickness looks about right. If you're using the Jotika 0.3mm brass etched eyelets for the tackle rings, I would have thought that a pre drilled micro hole and ca on the eyelet shaft would be enough to hold. You can always run the shafts thro' the sides, they won't be seen on the insides once the barrels are in place.

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Re: Making the Guns

Post by chrism » Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:05 am

Thanks. For the eyebolt I need to add midway into each side piece - ie where I will eventually rig - I was going to use the micro 0.3 ones and for the other 3 - ie one in the axle and two in the thickness of sides at bottom near rear axle as it were - I was going to go with the Amati copper ones. I think that is what I have interpreted that you used? Am I thinking right?

I have already decided like you that I will add the side rigging but not the other rigging into the deck as it will clutter up the deck too much.

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Re: Making the Guns

Post by Maurice Wilcox » Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:47 am

Hi Chris, I used the 0.3mm eyelets for all the carriage rings on the guns, but I did use the 2mm copper eyebolts to make the breeching rings above the pommelion.

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Re: Making the Guns

Post by chrism » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:40 pm

Thanks for the clarification.

Ah ..., breeching rings, pomellions... They are still a little way off yet. I have to practice and improve my skills in that black magic sacred ritual of barrel rolling first. Something you were spared! x7x

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Re: Making the Guns

Post by Pete Coleman » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:59 pm

"Lightning Pete" took all yesterday afternoon to rig the breeching ropes on just 11 cannon.....
Looking really good Chris, I support Maurice's thinking re thickness of the carriages.
Is rolling cannon barrels anything like rolling a spliff? :roll:
Best regards, Pete. (A.O.T.F.) :character-spongebobdance:
-------------------------------------------------------
"In which it will be ready when it's ready"
------------- Preserved Killick -------------

chrism
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Re: Making the Guns

Post by chrism » Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:43 pm

It had crossed my mind whether a roll-up making gadget might assist in rolling these beggars....
but no - the paper does not want to overlap at all it needs to just join on the edge. I have tried using really thin paper getting a little overlap but then it is too thin for much handling, as you need to drill or poke something through to make holes to put trunnion in place.

So I am back to using 100gsm thickness paper. Anything much thicker is too thick to roll acceptably.

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Re: Making the Guns

Post by Rob » Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:29 pm

Are the barrels going to be hollow Chris? You could represent a tampion, make them solid and turn them out of wood dowel.

Cheating! Moi!

Rob. x8x

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Re: Making the Guns

Post by chrism » Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:06 pm

The barrels are designed to be hollow. However some drinking straws as base matter are next on my ideas to pursue list as a core base material. The nippers have small thin ones from tesco and wider ones when out in cafes etc.

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Re: Making the Guns

Post by chrism » Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:26 am

Knowing that I will need to have mastered and ideally made a barrel or two to “final” type build criteria before the lower two deck carriages are inserted at the latest – I thought it might be a good idea this week to persevere and master them.

These are my initial attempts at the 3 different sizes the kit offers. They equate well with the sizes given in AOTS.
They are made just from black paper and have not yet been painted. With a little more practice I am sure they will look a lot better. Like many items we photograph and show - from the camera perspective they look much different (worse) to viewing with the naked eye.


I have tried making a further smaller barrel which is the fourth smaller one in the first photo. I will try and use that for the shorter 12-lb on quarter deck. Such ideas and hopes may get foiled later and a lot will depend on how they sit and poke out of port holes.

Once the paper is rolled – the starting shape is the white piece in one of photos – they are the parts for the largest 32-lb and the 12-lb barrels – so once paper is rolled it then has additional strips of paper wound round to represent the astragals and reinforcing rings. At the fat end small circles of card laminated together form the rounded breech end.

For the pomellions I intend to find some suitable dressmaking pins with plastic heads, and also incorporate an eyelet in the top for the breeching rope.

Image

Once I had made them and introduced them to their respective carriages it became apparent that I had been a little over enthusiatic with emulating the images in AOTS and infact, my guns will need to have a ring of paper less on them than I had hoped – well the lower two deck ones will anyway otherwise they dont lie on the carriages at the right angle. So all my rings on those will need to be between the muzzle and the trunnion. Which is no great problem – as realistically all that will be visible on those is the small amount poking out the hole.

Image

Trying to use drinking straws or dowel will not work. A piece of dowel to help roll and fix the paper at the tighter firing end is I have found quite useful, but it is not an option to use and leave dowel in place in making them all, as they need to end up conical in shape.

Any bright ideas or suggestions for improvement welcomed as always.

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Re: Making the Guns

Post by Maurice Wilcox » Fri Oct 08, 2010 3:40 pm

Making those guns looks to be a real trial Chris, if I may make one observation the astragal/reinforcing rings look a little too wide and prominent to my eye.

I think I may be tempted to try BECCs self adhesive Vinyl lining tape to form the astragals etc; it comes in varying widths from 0.5mm - 5mm in one packet. I used it with success for the mast hoops on my Seventy-Four.

Just a thought

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