Mantua kit 776 - 1:96/(98?)

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chrism
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Mantua kit 776 - 1:96/(98?)

Post by chrism » Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:42 am

I built the model which this log refers too during the period March 2007 – June 2009.

Most of the text that follows is taken directly from the notes I made, and originally published during Jan-June 2009 on the Modelshipworld forum.

Where a further annotation and comment is now appropriate (Oct/Nov 2010 as I repost the log here) in light of discussions that ensued from postings made back then, I shall make that in a different colour or bold text

Where possible I shall retain the text and tense of the text as it was originally written.

The log I create here will all follow on sequentially - however I cannot recreate it all in an afternoon - so when it stops abruptly one day - do come back and carry on with it as I will be back to it soon.
Last edited by chrism on Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

chrism
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Re: Mantua kit 776 - 1:96/(98?)

Post by chrism » Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:44 am

A few comments on me and my background - very much an amateur by comparison to the wonderous photos many builders on this forum (MSW) submit.

However - I get pleasure and enjoyment from this as a hobby.

All my models are left as natural wood - ie I just varnish / wax the wood and leave it in a natural state. If I wanted a model with a fully painted finish - I would build a plastic model. (OR A CARD MODEL AS I AM NOW DOING)

Tools and resources - I do not have a large extensive tool kit, nor do I have a dedicated modelling area - I share the spare bedroom or have use of the dining table depending on the stage I am at. As for tools, apart from general household tools, I only own a few specialist modelling hand tools - eg plank nipper and couple of small drills. I do not have any electrical modelling tools.


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The first photo shows my modelling toolkit and model-workbench (a kitchen chopping board). Obviously sandpaper and various sticks and other shaped pieces of wood have had sandpaper attached to them for sanding are part of my armoury.


SO IT is possible to build a model without a lot of expensive tools - and with the use of ingenuity and strip wood to replicate parts.

chrism
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Re: Mantua kit 776 - 1:96/(98?)

Post by chrism » Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:47 am

Back to this particular kit and my reasons/motivation for choosing it:

Having built a number of other models I wanted to build Victory. I could not justify £700 for the Caldercaft one just yet - as I dont think I am that good a modeller to do it justice.

All the Victory models on the market had their deficiencies. So I went for one of the cheaper ones with the intention that I would make modifications to it.

Whilst the cost of the original kit was £175 in UK, (2006 prices) I have to date (Jan 2009) subsequently spent approximately another £20 on wood, £21 on lifeboats; and around £90 on a number of other little parts, including rigging thread to try and build a more accurate model. (these costs do not include any paint, varnish, glue), and I still have to source some replacement lanterns.

Once the kit had arrived, and I started studying the contents - I was pleased with the quality of the wood for first and second planking, and was pleased with how nicely the sections all sat on the keel section and needed very minimal adjustment and sanding once together. A lot of the deck fittings are from plywood parts and I intend to either remake a lot of these from walnut wood, or else cover them with 0.5mm strip which I have subsequently purchased.

As for the instructions and plans - they are an absolute joke. There are 6 sheets of plans, and two instruction booklets - one is in multiple languages including English, the other is basically just a repeat of the same information - but only in English.

My additional reference material comprises:

copies of deck and rigging plans that were part of Buglers book (which are very useful for identifying the sizes of the original ropes used, and then with a simple mathematic formula I can convert those rope circumference sizes back to find the diameter of the rope and then scale that out, to get a suitable size in mm to use. Plus they explain the names and positions of all the different rigging ropes, so they are incredibly useful.

I also own Longridges book; and another book by Noel Hackney which primarily is about the building of an Airfix kit, but is fantastically detailed in explaining an order and manner of organising the rigging, and the colour articles that appeared in Model Boats back in 2004 when Keith Julier built the Jotika victory.

The last book I own that is very useful is Rigging Period Model Ships by Lenarth Petersson.

I also downloaded a copy of the instructions for the Jotika/Caldercraft Victory from their website. Whilst these instructions were not too useful or relevant for building the hull, as I did not have the relevant plan sheets or wooden parts to reference, they do offer a number of useful little tips and ideas.

However for the rigging - their notes have/are proving very useful - as they refer by name to each of the ropes and mention what thickness rope they used - so I have been able to re-check what they used against the rigging inventory from Buglers book, and also find the correct placing and tying of that named rope from both Buglers plans and reference to Lennarth Petersson book.


The kit claimed to be 1:98 scale - however I took measurements and cross checked from Buglers deck plans and Longridges measurements - and it appeared I was working at half the size of these two (1:48).

So I effectively built my model as closely as I could using the deck plans from Buglers book - and worked at 1:96 scale. I largely built on my own with reference to other sources and made little use of the instructions and plans in kit.


NB: I did during early 2009 obtain a further book - the AOTS one.

chrism
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Re: Mantua kit 776 - 1:96/(98?)

Post by chrism » Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:55 am

Time for a few photos.
in one you can see I added some additional pieces of decking at the stern as a base for one of the dummy cannon. Whilst the kit get you to cut out and put a cannon at that point, there is no deck or base on which to stand it! (another reason for ignoring the kit and building my way.)

The kit did get you to add planking in two places between two of the bulkheads, to act as a floor for ladders to rest on, but I know that friends will peer through - like I do and see that the deck only exists for 3 planks wide, so I intentionally planked - (using surplus 1.5mm x 5mm lime from another previous kit) - as far as my eye could see in both directions through the openings where ladders will be placed.

I also painted black in all areas where it might be possible to see the rough-wood of the bulkheads - as the black then kills distance and the ability to see what is through the openings - where you don't want people to see.

The decking was done with the walnut 0.5mm x 3mm wood supplied, which I cut into 15,30,45,60,75mm pieces and laid over a 5-width pattern.

The caulking was Gutterman polyester cotton sewing thread. The two decks currently in place have both been sanded and given 2 coats of Ronseal Clear Matt quick drying varnish

Also at the bow I made a few similar alteration - and added balsa to get the shape of the bow, and I also carved out and ensured I could get the dowel for the bowsprit in, and then had to do a similar modification to the deck at that point, as the kit only get you to drill the bowsprit out after adding all the decorations and various components at the bow end.

I chose the get these holes made at this point - so that if I made a mess I could rectify it easily before planking and other wood got added.

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Re: Mantua kit 776 - 1:96/(98?)

Post by chrism » Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:58 am

a couple of other pictures: these next pictures show the plywood parts that were included in the kit. Overall the quality of them was quite poor and they had the burnt edges from the machine cutting

As you can see on the edges of these boards - I tried various different varnishes and finishes on the scrap edges of the wood, in an attempt to cover up the fact that the ply was sandwiched with a different colour in the middle.

From the outset - I decided I would try and remake most of these parts or cover them with thin veneer.

In the 2nd picture, the items which are on the wooden etched sheet - stern decoration etc - I decided that I would finish by applying a further coat of black paint, and then a coat of Caldercraft walnut paint - I have found that the Caldercraft range was good for disguising the yellow oily grainy finish of these pieces - (as I am not painting my kit like some people would do). (pictures of these painted parts will follow later)

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chrism
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Re: Mantua kit 776 - 1:96/(98?)

Post by chrism » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:00 am

This next picture shows on the left side - the item which mantua included and called a "ships bell" and the other little item on the right is the replacement which I have found from the Corel range - the Corel item to me - looks like a bell and is bell shaped, and has a bit underneath it to at least resemble the dong or bit that clangs in such a bell

The other plus with it, was that it was also inkeeping with the scale I am building at.

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Re: Mantua kit 776 - 1:96/(98?)

Post by chrism » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:03 am

this is the set of ships boats that I sourced. These again are from Mantua and have preformed plastic hulls, which do need a little bit of flash trimming off, but are otherwise reasonably nice and are detailed enough to have plank markings on them.

Once painted (these will have to be painted ) they should look ok - plus there are wooden pieces to add on for each boat to represent the decks, bottom floor boards, oars, oar locks and rudders.

I also have some very small anchors left from an abandoned small scale plastic kit years ago - which will also look inkeeping to place in the larger 3 boats - when the time comes.

Since purchasing this set of boats Mantua have now released a wooden set of 6, with a price circa £45UK which are sold for this kit, and they are built from the sandwich layer level method, but do not come with as much detail in respect of oars, oarlocks that the plastic set do.

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NB - at the time there was a discussion about these boats over on MSW and someone x7x did correctly comment that they were totally inaccurate. I did at that time have the shipyard card kit and was considering doing something with using those and modifying these plastic boats - however as will be seen much later in the log - time was running out, the new "owner/keeper" wanted it, and we were due deliver it, and more importantly - he was happy with these - so these won - but not many of them were installed on the deck.

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Re: Mantua kit 776 - 1:96/(98?)

Post by chrism » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:07 am

these photos show the deck from the mantua kit boat with the respective part from the card model

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Re: Mantua kit 776 - 1:96/(98?)

Post by Maurice Wilcox » Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:34 pm

Interesting Chris, the hull pics don't look that much different from your new card Victory, but the card boat interior is far superior to the Mantua representation.

Thanks for posting, we now have a full set of Victory modelling mediums on the forum. :D

ps did you know that your photos on the card build seem to have disappeared

chrism
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Re: Mantua kit 776 - 1:96/(98?)

Post by chrism » Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:10 pm

I'll invstigate photos tomorrowwhen got access tocomputer. I changed the album from public to privatewonder if that buggered it up? I'll sort it out though

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Re: Mantua kit 776 - 1:96/(98?)

Post by Pete Coleman » Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:09 pm

That would do it Chris!
Best regards, Pete. (A.O.T.F.) :character-spongebobdance:
-------------------------------------------------------
"In which it will be ready when it's ready"
------------- Preserved Killick -------------

chrism
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Re: Mantua kit 776 - 1:96/(98?)

Post by chrism » Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:39 am

Hopefully I have rectified all the photos in card log. So a bit more on this old one.
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Once the officers cabins were added, the remaining decks then went in and were planked - as per following photos.

STILL DONT KNOW WHERE PHOTOS OF CABINS GOT TOO!! - LOOKING FOR THOSE STILL

I purposely left the deck planking proud at the sides of the boat, so as to trim it back to the deck planking when I planked the sides. The wooden pieces supplied in the kit for decking (on which to then plank) were just a fraction too narrow for my liking, and I was concerned that they would create a gap when they met the planking hull planking later on (which is exactly what did happen. . . . so it was good foresight to leave them proud.

Likewise I left all the hatch openings a little proud, and trimmed them to suit when I added whatever married upto or onto them later.

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Re: Mantua kit 776 - 1:96/(98?)

Post by chrism » Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:42 am

Next major stage of construction was the first planking. But, prior to this I decided to sand down the keel - which as you can tell from my pictures is all attached to the basic hull structure - I sanded it down to approx 2mm thick - so that I could then plank it right from the bottom all the way along and ensure that I kept my planking straight and not curling up at edges.

(I'd read a planking tutorial (OVER ON MSW)- quite a few times and was trying to ensure I did my best effort on this hull).

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Re: Mantua kit 776 - 1:96/(98?)

Post by chrism » Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:45 am

However, once I had done the sanding down on the bottom of the keel I initially thought I had made a big-mistake - but with time and once all planking was done I realised that this was infact a very positive move,


By now I had also cut all the base sections of the masts so that I could check they fitted OK and went fully down into their respective slots whilst I could still see into the inside of the hull - ie before commencing with first planking. I also marked the dowels with a pencil so that when they (eventually!) got made up and fixed in and I could not see what I was doing, I had a good idea of exactly how far they needed to be coaxed and pushed.

Not a lot to comment about the planking - planking is planking - and you can see my first planking as it ended up from the next photos - taken before I commenced the long and arduous task of sanding and fillering.

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Re: Mantua kit 776 - 1:96/(98?)

Post by chrism » Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:47 am

Sanding up was a large task - on a large model such as this - but eventually it was all done.

I then had the fairly statutory "couple of small areas that could benefit from a touch of filler", so they were filled and re-sanded and I then chose as you can see from the following couple of pictures to paint the entire hull with a coat of primer.

I did this basically because I had used a mixture of two different woods for the first planking and wanted to achieve a uniform coloured surface onto which to draw and mark the waterline and gunports ready for cutting them out. (the "primer" was infact just matt-emulsion paint - but it did what I needed it to do - and give me a sound surface to easily pencil and mark onto)


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